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where were you on election night? home. and talk about what you went through. well, when the results came in from indiana,i was very nervous. we had an outside chance with a conservativedemocrat to win that seat—no one thought that clinton was going to win it—and hegot beaten rather badly, and i started getting nervous. and it was downhill from there. i went into the evening thinking that it wasabout a two-to-one shot that clinton would

win. so, i mean, i was—i was not shocked thattrump won—surprised, but not shocked—for the reasons, some of the reasons, that i gave. but i will not deny to you that it was a verydepressing evening. i did not want to deal with the media. i didn’t want to—i was invited to be on,you know, a million different things. i didn’t even show up at the state event,you know. so, i will not deny that it was a depressingevening. and since then, i’ve been thinking as hardas i can, with other people, about how we

go forward and what the best response is. this also catapults you into the positionof the most powerful, non-democratic democrat in the country. well, there are not too many non-democraticdemocrats who are in the united states senate, so it doesn’t say much. but yeah, it—but i think your point is thatlast week or two weeks ago chuck schumer, who is now the leader of the democrats inthe senate, put me on leadership. and he gave me a position that i wanted, andthat is to be chair of the outreach effort. and what i am going to do is use that position,with your help, with all of your help, to

transform the democratic party. i think—you know, it is very easy to beatup on people when they’re down, and that’s not my intention. you know, secretary clinton and her supportersare hurting now. it’s not my intention to be beating up onthem. but it goes well beyond the presidential race. right now in the united states, as you know,mr. trump will be inaugurated. right now, the republicans control the u.s.senate. democrats, i had hoped—we thought we hada better than even chance of gaining control.

we did not. we’ll end up with 49 seats. democrats picked up a few seats in the house,but the republicans will continue to control the house. not only that, in about two-thirds of thestates in this country, there are republican governors. and in the last eight or so years, democratshave lost some 900 legislative seats in state capitols all over this country. so i think any independent assessment, withoutcasting any blame, says the current approach

has failed. all right? when you lose, you know, it’s like theyalways say about the football coach: you know, if you’re zero and 10, you’re not doingwell. well, the current approach clearly is notsucceeding, and we need a new approach. and the new approach, i think, is to, a, createa 50-state strategy. that means we start playing ball in statesthat the democrats have conceded decades ago. but more importantly, we create a kind ofgrassroots party, where the most important people in the party are not just wealthy campaigncontributors, but working people, young people,

people in the middle class, who are goingto come in and going to start telling us what their needs are and give us some ideas asto how we go forward. and i accept this responsibility as outreachchair with a lot of trepidation, but also with excitement. i’m going to be going around the countryto try to do everything that i can to create a party which represents working people andnot just the 1 percent. and the issue of who will head the democrat—thednc? i am strongly supporting a congressman fromminnesota named keith ellison. and the reason—i’ve known keith for anumber of years.

keith is the chair—co-chair, along withraãºl grijalva, of the house progressive caucus, which is, by definition, the most progressivecaucus in the u.s. house. and keith fundamentally believes, as i’veindicated, that we need to make a major transformation of the democratic party, we need to make itinto a grassroots party, and he has some very specific ideas as to how to do that. so i’m strongly supporting keith, and i’lldo everything i can to [inaudible]. and the significance of his being the firstmuslim congressmember at a time when the president-elect says he wants to set up a muslim registry? obviously, there is great symbolism in that.

but to me, to be honest with you, as somebodywho is not a great fan of identity politics, i am supporting keith because he is a strongprogressive whose whole life has been about standing up for working families and the middleclass and low-income families. but your point cannot be denied. and that is, it will be a statement to theentire country that the leader of the democratic party is a muslim, that we want a party ofdiversity, that we will not accept for one second the bigotry that trump has been espousingduring his campaign. what do you think donald trump represents? i mean—and who do you think he represents?

that’s a good question, and i don’t knowthat i can give you a definitive answer, but this is what i think. for a start, in terms of the campaign, whathe did is, as i indicated in my remarks, he touched a nerve. and it would be wrong to deny that. there are some people who think that everybodywho voted for donald trump is a racist, a sexist or a homophobe or a xenophobe. i don’t believe that. are those people in his camp?

absolutely. but it would be a tragic mistake to believethat everybody who voted for donald trump is a "deplorable." they’re not. these are people who are disgusted, and theyare angry at the establishment. and the democratic party has not been clearenough, in my view, about telling those people, whether they are white, whether they are black,latino, asian american or whatever, women, gay, whatever, that we are on their side. and too often what we look at is identity.

you’re a woman. well, that’s good, but we need more womenin the political process. we need more african americans in the politicalprocess, more latinos. no question about that. but we need people who will have the gutsto stand up to the billionaire class and corporate america and fight for working families. you were considered a fringe candidate. maybe you, yourself, considered yourself afringe candidate. when did the moment come when you actuallyfelt the bern?

well, i’ll tell you. this is what i thought, you know, and it’sbeen a crazy two years. but, you know, what i thought is, look, iwasn’t born yesterday, and i wasn’t—you know, i didn’t just get involved in politicstwo years ago. i’ve been representing the state of vermontfor 25 years in congress. i was mayor of the city of burlington foreight years, where i took on democrats and republicans to win election. and i knew, you know, that the message thatwe had—i could see it in vermont. you go to the rural areas, by the way, wherepeople are not necessarily pro-choice, where

they may not be enthusiastic about gay marriage,where they may or may not believe that climate change is real, but they are sick and tiredof having to work two or three jobs, not being able to send their kids to college, worriedabout their own parents. i picked that up, ok, in vermont. and i thought that the message that resonatedin vermont—and i won my last election in vermont four years ago with 71 percent ofthe vote. i did not believe for one minute that vermontwas any different than the rest of the country. but what ended up—to answer your question,what happened is, before i decided to run—and the book goes into it—we went around thecountry.

and we did, honestly—you know, politiciansalways say, "well, the people asked me to run," you know, after they had already madea decision to run. but the truth is, i didn’t know. how responsive would people be to our message? well, i’ll never forget. we were in—on a beautiful sunday afternoonin los angeles—maybe the weather is always beautiful there, i don’t know. but anyhow, it was—and i thought nobodywould show up at a meeting. we had the musicians’ union hall.

we had 500 people coming out: "run, bernie,run." we were in minneapolis—this is a funny story,which we relate in the book. you know, we didn’t know our way aroundminneapolis. so we were driving around. suddenly we see this long line of people,and i comment to the guy next to me. i said, "i wonder what concert is going on." well, it turns out, 7,000 people were therefor an event. this is early on. and what we were beginning to see with theturnouts, the turnouts at our rallies, more

and more people coming out, more and moreexcitement, more working people, more young people, who indicated to me, in a milliondifferent ways, they were sick and tired of establishment politics and establishment economics. they wanted real change. and i will tell you, as the campaign progressed,that it was an awe-inspiring moment, a humbling moment, to be walking out on a stage—i thinkit was in portland, oregon, where the trail blazers play in the nba—and you look out,and there are 28,000 people at a rally in portland, 25,000 in seattle, 27,000 in losangeles. so people were starting to come out.

the word was getting around. and it was especially gratifying to see somuch beauty in the faces of young people who want real change in this country. and yet, who heard you were the people inthat room, in each place. you were having the largest rallies of anyone,including donald trump, certainly far surpassing hillary clinton. but what donald trump had that you didn’twas the media. and, you know, that was repeated over andover by those that owned the media. you know, "he is good for us."

so, it wasn’t just fox. it was all of the networks that were trumptv. right. that’s right. he didn’t have to travel. he was piped into everyone’s homes. march 15th, super tuesday iii, was the nightwhen rubio gave his speech, and ted cruz gave his speech, clinton gave her speech, and donaldtrump, they waited for half an hour for him to give his speech and showed the open podium,as they often did.

they showed more of the open podium waitingfor donald trump than ever playing your speeches. that’s what—those were all the candidatesthat night. and they played all their full speeches. they did not play one word of your speech. you were speaking in phoenix, arizona, tothe largest rally of any of those people that night. they didn’t even speculate where you were. i wish i could disagree with you. no, no, no, amy is raising a very—and wego into it in the book.

i was stunned. i mean, you know, in the middle of the campaign,you’re not figuring out this stuff or thinking about it. turns out that from january 1st, 2015, i think,through november 2015, abcevening news had us on for 20 seconds. what was it you did that was so newsworthy? and it wasn’t much better on nbc or cbs,all right. and that’s just the simple truth. and there are a couple of points.

i think—amy, correct me if i’m wrong,but i think the guy who’s head of cnn said, "hey, trump has been fantastic for us." i mean, literally said that. "we’re making huge profits from trump." and the point to be made is, we had the misfortuneof actually trying to talk about the problems facing america and providing real solutions. trump was tweeting out about how ugly or horribleor disgusting or terrible his opponents were, in really ugly terms. perfect for the media.

that is a great 12-second sound bite. but to talk about why the middle class isin decline or why we have massive levels of income and wealth inequality can’t be donein 12 seconds. and second of all, it’s not something thatthey are, frankly, terribly interested in. it was les moonves, who is head of cbs, whosaid, "it may not be good for america, but it’s good for us." cbs? cbs. yeah, i think a guy at cnn said somethingsimilar, because if you say outrageous things,

this is what cnn lives for. that’s what they live for. and then they got to have somebody else: "didyou hear what he said? oh, my god, it’s terrible." and they go on and on. and that’s—that is coverage. here is something. during the primary campaign, somebody—ithink it was the shorenstein school of media at harvard, just over there.

they studied the kind of coverage, and theysaid that something like 90 percent of media coverage during the primary—and i don’tthink they got any better during the general—was all on this kind of stuff, gossip; 10 percenton issues, which surprised me. i didn’t even think it was 10 percent onissues, but... you recently gave a speech in washington aroundthe dakota access pipeline. yeah. what can you do right now? it seems—i want to ask a question aboutthe peaceful transition of power that president obama has been talking about.

i thought that meant that people won’t takeup arms in this period. but it does seem to be that even proposalsthat would be put forward now—we just came from morocco, the u.n. climate summit; theu.s. pulled back on plans it was going to put forward there—that to ease the transition,they will go—the obama administration will go in the direction of a trump administration. now, on the dakota access pipeline, presidentobama, who visited standing rock in 2014—i think the only native american reservationhe visited, with michelle obama. they had a pow wow. they met the children.

it was quite amazing. so, he knows the standing rock tribe in northdakota. after the video of the dogs came out thatwe filmed labor day weekend, dogs with their nose and mouths dripping with blood from bitingthe native american water protectors—they were unleashed by the pipeline guards—presidentobama returned from asia, and when a judge ruled on behalf of the company, three—15minutes later, an unprecedented three-agency letter came out from the army, from the interiorand justice and said, "we’re going to—we are not going to issue this final permit." but the latest we’ve heard this week isthe army corps of engineers says people have

got to get off the property. what can you do as a senator, even in thistime of the peaceful transition of power? i trust that most people here know about thedakota access pipeline. the issues are threefold, and i’ll tellyou what we are trying to do. and i think your description of the situationis correct. number one, we’re dealing with sovereigntyrights for native american people, an invasion of their own property, in violation of treatyrights, which is an endemic problem in this country. number two, you’re talking about an areawhere, if the pipe bursts, water, clean water

that goes to millions of people in that region,could be severely impacted, at a time when we’re all concerned about the amount ofclean water that we have. and thirdly, and most importantly perhaps,you’re talking about whether or not we should be in any way supporting a pipeline whichis piping in filthy oil at a time when we need to transform our energy system away fromfossil fuel to energy efficiency and sustainable energy. so those are the three issues there. i think what we have done is, number one,demanded that the president do what he did with keystone.

a lot of people put a lot of pressure on thepresident, and he finally did the right thing. and that is to kill the keystone pipeline,which, by the way, under a trump may be reopened again. but that is what he should be doing. and certainly, the demand must go to the northdakota authorities that the kind of military presence that exists there is simply not whatis acceptable. so, we have written to the president. we are going to continue to put pressure onthe president to do everything he can to protect the native americans in the area and the protestersin the area.

let me ask you about that famous moment inone of the debates with hillary clinton where you said you didn’t care about the damnemails. do you feel the same way today? what i said—and sometimes it got taken outof context—is that there was an investigation going on and that i wanted to spend—thathistory, 10 years from now, trust me, no one will remember these damn emails. what they will worry about is people not havinghealthcare. they’ll worry about climate change. they’ll worry about poverty.

they’ll worry about infrastructure. and my point was—and the media often doesn’tplay that whole statement—i said, you know, "i’m sick and tired of hearing about yourdamn emails, because that’s what the whole campaign is about. why don’t we talk about, a, the collapseof the middle class, income and wealth inequality, healthcare, education, how we move the countryforward?" and that was the thrust of my point. it is not my style—and sometimes, amazinglyenough, i get criticized for it—for running, you know, ugly and negative ads.

i prefer to stay on the important issues facingthe american people. there are other areas we could have gone,as well, that trump went into, that we chose not to do it, because i think, in my own state,i can tell you that people do want to hear a serious discussion on serious issues. that’s what we tried to do. well, let me tell you the reason i ask thisnow. this issue that was hijacked by the right-wingmedia and trump himself, but the issue of the secretary of state setting up this privateemail server, and she has her husband, who’s the former president and running a multibillion-dollarfoundation, meeting with heads of state, as

well, and yet they don’t have accountabilityhere—what this means not only for them, but if this becomes a model, for example,for president trump. he runs a vast business empire. he is the top government official. if he decides to set up his own private emailserver and decides that he can disappear tens of thousands of email, there won’t be agovernment record of what is actually going on. right, right. i mean, i think that’s a fair point.

and i think, with trump, the major point isthis guy has business enterprises all over the world. and you’re looking just at immense, immenseconflict of interest. every decision that he makes is going to impacthis bottom line of some business that he owns all over the world. so it remains a huge issue. and i got your point, too, obviously, youknow, and that is the valid criticism of having a private email when you’re doing governmentbusiness. and now his cabinet appointments, your thoughtson the direction he’s going?

well, i think this is where—and what ourjob is—in fact, as i mentioned earlier, i’m going to be, i think, in indiana onmonday night. and we’re going to go to the carrier plant,where you have a situation where carrier is—you all remember air-conditioners—they makefurnaces in indiana, actually. and they decided—they announced last yearthey’re going to shut down two plants in indiana, throw 2,100 workers out on the street. this is a company that pays top dollar toits ceos, head guy makes $14 million. couple of years ago they had a severance packagefor a former ceo. you know what the guy got as a golden parachute?

$171 million. and now what they want to do is shut the plantsdown and move to mexico and hire people in monterrey for three bucks an hour. so it becomes symbolic of a disastrous tradepolicy. and we’re going to be there. but to answer your question, what we havegot to do now, to those people who voted for trump, because they said, "well, you know,this guy sounds reasonable"—trump sent out a tweet where he says, "i am the only republicancandidate for president who will not cut social security, medicare and medicaid."

right? well, believe me, every american, every personin this country, if i have anything to say about it, will know precisely what is goingon with social security, medicare and medicaid, because, as you’ve indicated, they are beginningto appoint people who are typical right-wing republicans who want to privatize and cutsocial security. and our job—and we’ve got it. we’ve got every statement that trump madeduring this campaign. and we are going to hold him accountable. every person in this country will know whathe said and what he is doing.

trump said, "one of the issues that i thinka whole lot of people are deeply concerned about is the high cost of medicine in thiscountry." trump said during the campaign he was goingto take on the pharmaceutical industry. he was going to allow for medicare to negotiateprices with the drug companies, allow people to reimport medicine from canada and othercountries, where the price is often half as much as it is in the united states. well, you know what? we are going to remind the american peopleof precisely what donald trump said about that and many other issues.

so now you have someone like betsy devos chosento be the new secretary of education, sister of erik prince, who, you know—blackwater. —is founder of the mercenary firm blackwater. and multibillionaire, a multi, multibillionaire,i think, very active in politics in michigan. and massive supporter of voucher system foreducation. and then you have mike flynn, the nationalsecurity adviser nominee. and this goes to another point of—thoughit’s critical to hold trump accountable, starting with the democrats, on the issueof the kill list, president obama’s kill list, his using extrajudicial powers, executivepowers, to kill people—can be americans—without

a judge, a jury, without them being chargedwith a crime. that’s president obama, and he’s extendingthose powers. your thoughts on president obama’s use ofthe kill list and then the idea of president trump using his kill list? well, look, you know, when we talk—obviously,i disagree with obama in using—unilaterally deciding who’s going to live or die. and, look, it goes without saying that, youknow, we are concerned—i am deeply concerned—about virtually everything that trump is talkingabout and has talked about in his campaign and the kind of people that he is appointing.

but what’s going through my mind right nowis to figure out the most effective way that we can fight back. that’s really what i am focusing on rightnow. and what i will say, and what i believe tobe the case, the republicans are many things, but they’re not dumb. and if millions of people begin to stand upand fight back, they’re going to be thinking twice about doing very bad things. i’ll give you just one example, amy. a couple of years ago, sad to say, not onlyall—virtually all republicans wanted to

cut social security. there were a number of democrats who did,as well. and some of us in the senate, organizing adefending social security caucus, we worked with senior groups all over this country. we got millions of signatures on petitionscoming in. and you know what? they backed off. they did not cut social security. so, i think if there’s—if there’s alesson to be learned right now, when we are

fighting for huge stakes—we’re fightingfor the future—future of the planet in terms of climate change. we’re fighting for the future of americandemocracy. we have got to mobilize people and rethinkour commitment in terms of what our role is in the political process. and the message i just want to make here inphiladelphia and across this country is it is not good enough to say, "well, hey, i voteevery two years. i vote every four years." that’s fine, but that is not good enough.

what we need to do is to be thinking everyday the kinds of role we can play in educating and organizing and mobilizing people to defeatthis horrific agenda. and i do believe that if millions of peopledo stand up and fight back, we can stop him from doing some really awful things. and that’s what i am trying to do rightnow. and we’ve got to mobilize people to do that. what do you think of jill stein’s demandfor the recount, the green party’s demand— well, it’s not a demand. —in wisconsin, in michigan, in pennsylvania?

they’re exercising their rights. and now the clinton campaign supporting it. yeah, yeah. i mean, i think it’s fine. what’s the significance? what will happen? what can happen? you want me to tell you exactly what willhappen? well, i think—no, yeah, i think what mostpeople expect is not much will happen, but

we will see. but it touches on—so, in other words, allthat they are doing is what happens all of the time. nothing new about that. recounts take place. when i was elected mayor, there was a recount. right now in north carolina, the republicangovernor, who appears to be losing, wants a recount. not a new idea.

but i’ll tell you what it touches on, whyit is touching a nerve, is not because i believe that it’s going to reverse the results. i don’t think that’s the case. but this is what people, especially with allof this barrage of attacks on websites and so forth, are really wondering, whether whenthey vote, is their vote legitimate? you know, and there’s talk: have the russiansinterfered in this thing? so that’s what it will deal, which takesus to another issue. and i wouldn’t have said this a few yearsago, but i will say it tonight. i was just researching this.

you know, in canada, they still do their votingwith paper ballots. and maybe it takes an extra hour or two toget the results out to the media, but they manage to survive. and i kind of think we should go back to paperballots, lock them up. but i think—i think what this suit is aboutis touching on that issue and trying to see if the results end up being significantlydifferent than what we were announced on election and i know we just have a few minutes, butthis is an historic period. fidel castro just died on friday at the ageof 90. during the campaign, hillary clinton triedto redbait you by raising your support of

the sandinistas and talking about you beingfavorable towards fidel castro. but i was wondering if you could talk aboutthe significance of the life and legacy of fidel castro and talk about the u.s. in relationto latin america today. well, it’s not just latin america. you know, i think what we can say—and i’vebeen to cuba two or three times. i think jane and i went in 1989 for the firsttime, and i’ve been back a couple of times, and jane had some educational work in cuba. a lot of positive things that can be said. their healthcare system, for a third worldcountry, is quite good.

it’s universal: all people have healthcarewithout any expense. last time i was there, i visited a hospital,where they do very, very serious and good work. they come up with a lot of new drugs, actually,in cuba, i believe. their educational system is strong. but in truth, their economy is in pretty badshape. and in truth, you don’t do very well ifyou dissent in cuba. so i think, you know, if you look over castro’slong life, he overthrew a terrible dictator, supported by the united states of america,batista.

some very positive changes came about. and we can argue 'til the cows come home towhat degree american interference created the kind of society that exists in cuba today. so that you could say there are some positivethings in cuba, some very negative things. fifty years after the revolution, people stillcan't dissent with freedom. the economy is terrible. but i think it raises the question—i wason a sunday show yesterday, and somebody was raising a quote that i made about castro 30years ago. and, you know, somehow, they have decidedthat fidel castro is the only—that cuba

is the only nondemocratic country in the world. see, saudi arabia is fine. many other countries in the middle east arefine. and what we need to do, as a nation, is reallystart educating the american people. you know, amy, i’m sure, that in 1954, wayback when, we overthrew a democratically elected government in guatemala, which unleashed decadesand decades and decades of horror in that country, supported terrible people in el salvador. we engineered the overthrow of salvador allendein chile, democratically elected, the first time a person democratically elected in chilewas overthrown through the united states and

the cia. but those issues somehow don’t quite makeit onto abc. but i think it is important to understandour role in the world. in iran, we overthrew—what was it? 1954?—mr. mosaddegh. 1953. '53, mr. mosaddegh. and how many people are familiar with that? did people know that?

good. not a lot of people—certainly, young peopledon't know that. but in 1953, at the bequest of british oilcompanies, the united states government helped engineer a coup of a guy who was democraticallyelected, who was thinking about nationalizing some of the oil industry there. he was replaced by the shah, who turned outto be a very brutal, brutal man, which then resulted in what we have today with khomeinicoming to power. but these are issues that virtually do—correctme if i’m wrong. have you seen many shows about that on nbc?

you know, it’s just not something to betalked about. tune into democracy now! all right. it’s a good show. let me ask you two last questions. the electors of the electoral college, doyou think they have a special role to play, given that hillary clinton, it looks like,will have something like, as you pointed out, two-and-a-half million more votes than donaldtrump? no, i think that’s an archaic concept.

i think nobody—i mean, nobody voted forthe electors; 99.9 percent of the people don’t even know who the electors are. they voted for hillary clinton. they voted for donald trump. and their obligation is to support the candidatethat the people in the state voted for. and your thoughts that donald trump said thathe would have won the popular vote but for the millions of people who voted illegally? i know this will shock you: i personally donot believe every single thing that donald trump says.

no, but i did mention in my remarks that thatwas a—you know, this is—we can go back and look at all of the totally absurd andnonfactual statements that trump made. you know, and i am not a guy in politics whoreally likes to attack viciously my opponents. it’s not my style. but i felt obliged during the campaign tosay something that was just patently true, and that is that trump is a pathological liar. and, you know, i mean, he was saying—andthe danger is, it may be—you know, everybody lies. you know you’re lying.

but i fear very much that he may be not evenknowing that he lies, that he believes that he saw—the only person in the world whosaw in new jersey muslims on a rooftop celebrating the destruction of the twin towers, the onlyperson in america who saw it, and he’s utterly convinced that he saw it. and he may well be convinced of that. it may not be a lie; he may believe that hesaw that. but this statement, as i mentioned earlier,the danger of this statement is not just that it is delusional and incorrect, is that itsets—if you have a president who believes that millions of people voted illegally, you’retelling every republican official in this

country to suppress the vote, to make it harderfor people to vote, whether they are immigrants, whether they are people of color, whetherthey are poor people, young people or old people. that is the danger of that statement. and that’s something we have got to fighttooth and nail. will you be running for president again? oh, now you sound—ok, now, she waited ’tilthe end of the program to sound like a mainstream media person. well, will i—do i continue to sound—doi continue to sound that way if i ask you,

would you ever consider leaving the democraticparty, that you’re actually not a part of? and—well—well, let me answer the other question, is—four years is a long time. i’ve got to—you know, i’m going to berunning for re-election most likely in two years for vermont to the senate. and there’s just an enormous amount of politicalwork that has to be done at this—at this moment. i think, you know, as now having been recentlyappointed a member of the democratic leadership, my job, with the help of everybody in thisroom—look, we’re going to ask a lot from

you. and here’s the bad news: we don’t wantjust your money. see, and one of the things that bothers meis—and i will take this on—is democrats spend an enormous amount of time raising money. and i have—for those people who were kindenough to donate—and we appreciate it very much—i’ve got to ask you a favor. do not take up so much time—and i mean thisvery seriously—time of the candidates. they—if i have anything to say about it,they’re going to be going to kansas and mississippi and alabama, where they’re notgoing to be raising money, they’re going

to be talking to working people. so we need financial support, but we don’thave the time to spend an evening with 10 we need your financial help, but you haveto allow serious people in politics to go out and start talking to working people sothat we can transform the politics of this is that—is that a yes for 2020? so, no comment for 2020. it’s a statement that—it is a statementwe have to worry, believe me, about 2017 and 2018. and again, let me repeat what i have saidthroughout the campaign and i believe absolutely

from the bottom of my heart: politics is notabout a person. we transform this country not by electingsome guy or woman to be president; we transform this country when millions of people standup and fight back. that will result in good leadership on top. so the goal right now is not to worry aboutwho’s going to be running in 2020 or 2080. the goal now is to mobilize millions of peoplearound a progressive agenda. and finally, many people are deeply concernedabout the two-party duopoly. you, yourself, are an independent or a socialist. would you ever consider a third-party run—well, i—

—like joining with the green party? you know, i did that. in vermont, as many know, i defeated democratsand republicans to become mayor, defeated democrats and republicans to make it intothe congress. recent years, democrats have been more sympathetic. and i’ve been a member of the democraticcaucus for 25 years. so right now i would not have accepted theposition of leadership if i was not serious about fundamentally reforming the democraticparty. so that’s where my head is right now.

thank you. bernie, the last question is—i’m famousfor my "finallys." this is your fourth last question! for people who are feeling deeply discouragedright now— yes. what did you learn from your campaign thistime around? good question. where you almost won. let me just say this, and the feeling of—iwouldn’t use the word "discouragement."

the feeling of maybe frustration, depression,all of which is valid, but here’s what i hope that everybody remembers. anybody who knows anything about americanhistory, you know, think about what this country—and i don’t mean to be ultra-patriotic here,but think about the issues that we had to confront. think about 120 years ago. there were children—children, kids, 12,10 years old—working in factories, losing their fingers. people fought back.

they fought to create unions. think about the women’s movement. think about the civil rights movement. think about the gay rights movement. think about the environmental. think about all of the hurdles that thosefolks had to overcome. we were, during the course of the campaign—amy,i don’t know if you know this; i didn’t know it 'til last year—we were in birmingham,alabama. and all of you, you know, probably rememberthe horrific bombing that took place in birmingham.

you remember that, where 12 children werekilled? i did not know, until i was at that church,that that month in birmingham—do you how many bombings there were in that month? testing you, amy; i'm asking you a question. two hundred? no, but there were a lot. point being—what’s the point? the point is—you know, i thought there wasone terrible bombing. there were 13 bombings.

that city was under siege by terrorists whodid not want to see the voting rights act passed. and people fought back. so, where we are now is in a difficult moment. i don’t want to minimize the difficultiesfacing us. but throughout history, serious people havefought back. that’s where we are now, and that is exactlywhat we have to do. it is not acceptable—it really is not—forpeople to throw their hands up and say, "oh, i’m depressed.

oh, i’m giving up." it’s not about you. it’s about the future of this planet. it’s about your kids and your grandchildren. it is about american democracy. it is about some very fundamental issues. and nobody in this room or in this countryhas a right to say "i give up." on the other hand, you’ve got to jump inand start fighting.