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ok - what's up? [we're] duvdev, erez - infected mushroom we're at bpm - at a semi-crazy musical lecture, and it's going to be totally awesome. infected mushroom are one of the pioneering groups of 'psy trance' and currently play over 120 shows annually, including the biggest festivals around the world such as: coachella, burning man, edc, ultra, tommorrowland, and more their resume holds 10 studio albums, productions for some of the world's largest acts including lady gaga, and deals with the biggest labels worldwide. ok, are we good? can everyone hear us? [applause]-hi

they really deserve it... so nice to meet you all, i'm shachaf, welcome to bpm, to this masterclass with the electronic group, and in my opinion - generally the best group to come out of israel give it up for infected mushroom! [applause] say hello...-good, good, how's it going? we're going to start this lecture a bit differently today, this lecture usually discusses vst's, and all sorts of stuff like that, but this time we're going to start with questions - if you want to ask us

let's take care of that, because it usually ends up there, like all sorts of questions each person wants to ask. so let's begin with those questions, and then we'll get to the technical stuff... erez: what do you guys want to know about?duvdev: yeah, what is it - whoever has a question, now's the time.shachaf: even if it has to do with production, anything... duvdev: anything, it doesn't mattererez: also vst, whatever you guys want duvdev: let's hear what you guys have to say before we start audience member: i have a question, how long have you guys been- well, it's actually two questions- first one - how long have you guys being going around the world - in countries other than israel? we started making music in 1996,

which is 20 years ago, and that's harsh, that's harsh [applause]audience member: but your first gig abroad? our first gig outside of israel was in '98, which is two years after [we started] we started playing shows in europe, and then by the end of '98 we had already hit the usa because our second album release 'classical mushroom' has put us on the map as a band in the psytrance genre back then, and since then we're on the road. audience member: second question - a little called for -

when you started touring, did you have a manager? nope, there was no manager. erez and i would order the plane tickets and we would go and shack up in people's apartments there was none of this stuff like booking, managers, and such... and then after 3-4 years when i got sick of that crap, i called my good friend eyal here, and i said: "you're going to do that" and here he is today. next! audience member: do you actually sit down and cut up [samples] one by one, and compress, or -duvdev: yes.

-or do you use modulations, lfo, and get your sound that way? how do you reach such percision? it's all cut up, we cut it up like bitches, one by one, 1/16 by 1/16 if need be, and yeah the simple reason for that is that the automatic slicing in cubase which is the program we use, like if it's beat-slicing and all that stuff, it never does it the way you need it to and believe me, we try and we say "please do it right" and then it just doesn't. so we slice manually, and do the fades...both: nothing else you can do.

next, yo. what are some of the differences in production on cubase versions from 10 years ago? everything.[laughs] you asked what the differences were - everything's different. audience member: yeah but what has improved?duvdev: everything has improved 10 years ago you still needed external gear, and stuff like that. today there's no need for that, unless you're looking for some specific reverb for tracking vocals for instance, but if you're dealing with trance music and the likes, minimal amounts of vocals, you really don't need it. all of the gear is inside ['the box']

the level of computing today is... 10 years ahead of what it was back then... you really don't need anything, besides a pair of good monitors, erez: a good room and monitors, or headphonesduvdev: you used to need that, you did - we come from larger studios that shrank over time for what we need, and today, the quality of plugins is crazy and if you're talking about psytrance, and that's what you were asking about - - not alot has changed in the last 20 years... audience member: no, but the music has-

people like the kick and the bassline, and they liked it 10 years ago too. so whether it's cool or not, is just a matter of taste - but not alot has changed. yes. audience member: where did you learn to play [instruments] the crazy way you do? maybe things we listen to, or some of the bands we're into, maybe... we really like music, even if it's music for film, or stuff that's on the radio, doesn't matter, we really like listening to music so...we try. we listen to a lot of music and get inspired by plenty of artists from the younger generation that's making music

audience member: do you do that to connect to the younger generation of listeners? erez: mainly to learn from themduvdev: to connect, and also to learn from moves that - we're not familiar with erez: we try to keep learning all the time, like we know nothing. duvdev: to learn. we learn a lot.up there, whoever's interested - go for it. audience member: what's your current setup in terms of monitors and such studio setup or live, which setup? no, studio-studio? like, which monitors, audio interface... we work with barefoot [monitors]-barefoot's near field model, but the larger ones, 12"

in terms of gear - external gear we use a very expensive reverb by lexicon the 960 [reverb] by lexicon, eventide h8000, external ssl interfaces, which is essentially.. ..you can call an ssl 'desk' although it's in the computer,and a non-functioning pc. yeah, and we recently switched to a macduvdev: and even that mac, it can't even copy/paste [laughs] erez: anyway..duvdev: we all have the same types of issues... -but our setup is composed of good monitors, we have a lot of external gear we don't really use 2 keyboards in the studio - the nord lead, and the yamaha motif, that sit there - for fun, because we play them sometimes...erez: we have 2 giant screens because we're blind.

an old neve preamp for tracking vocals, that came out of the vintage consoles, a blue 'bottle' microphone, the biggest one...two, because one was broken, for tracking vocals guitars - we get the worst ones every time, because erez and i don't know how to play guitar... we just recorded a 150$ guitar --just to mess around with its pitch later -sounds amazing..-that's the setup audience member: where do you draw the line in terms of what you sample for your tracks, and what you synthesize from scratch?-that's a really good question. our problem as producers of 20 years, has always been the same - the kick. the kick is the biggest problem.

and we haven't been making our own kicks since a while back. i'll be listening to rob swire of knife party- the guy makes a kick that's space-grade, and i lose my mind over it, honestly. ...and to start creafting it from scratch, in sound forge and such, and spend two weeks on that... back in the day, i would be up for it. we don't have the time for that today. so you head over to sample based [kicks]. same thing for the snares. erez: we look for something close to what we need.duvdev: what's close, what sounds like what we need - - we reference it and such. the rest - is fully original. because for melodies, guitars, stuff like that, we like to keep that to ourselves -

-unless there's a good guitarist around, like tommy [cunningham] or [erez] netz. but all of the rest is fully composed - and for the kick and the snare - i can't be bothered. and neither can he. he used to be, he used to insist on it. that's not the point of the track for us what does it matter if the kick is orig - well it matters for us, right? but the audience came to hear the melody, and if that melody caught their attention, they're not going to say- "hey that kick sounds..." no, but for us it matters. for this type of audience it would be interesting, that frequency range of the kick, but for most people -

-it really doesn't matter. audience member: when do you decide that "this is it, the track's finished."? we just discussed this downstairs in the office, and shachaf is our representative for-shachaf: 2 months on the kick & bass, you know duvdev: israeli trance artists, that sit at the computer on the kick and bassline for 4 months... ...and it's sad.shachaf: that's right. i'll be here, erez will say "come on, let's work on that bass sound" and i'll say "it's great - move on!" you know? because at the end of the day, the track you'll release, even if it's not 100% there, is going to be followed by another one.

so if you spend 4 months on the first one, you've just prevented yourself from making 6-7 tracks, the seventh of which would have been amazing. but you still had 7 tracks. therefore i recommend to anyone who is in a rut - move on. and if you can't move on, because that's a known problem - shachaf can't move on either. shachaf: i can't move on either.duvdev: so get someone else with an axe to make you move on.erez: there's no such thing as a perfect track. you just have to abandon it at some point and that's it. there's no perfect track, and if anyone things theirs is perfect,

you mentioned "heavyweight" and that's a really good track but we could've made it better if we had another two weeks or a month to work on it - there's no time for that. shachaf: you better have that friend that will tell you "let go, move on" that's the most important vst device there is - that friend that says "let it go". duvdev: let goooerez: that can be our next vst [product] with polyverse that can be like you ask it "how's this kick?" "great!" that'll be our next vst. we'll name it after you. audience member: how do you guys name your tracks? erez: there's no meaning-duvdev: we have fun with our track names...

i think it started around "converting" [vegetarians]? on the first "converting" - no, "dancing with kadafi" had meaning, because when we released "dancing with kadafi" we said 'if you dance with kadafi that would be perfect' we didn't know it would get to where it's at today. but at that time it had some meaning. on the first "converting" we had a good time with the names. "smahuta" was smuchta (a loogie), and all these different names that we used to send people to go look it up online, when there was no meaning. because when you're creating this much music, what does it matter what the tracks are called?

"blue swan 5" is a good example do you know how many times we were asked "why is it 5?" "why is that..." come on... move on, that's just our fun, and most of the tracks [names] is just fun between erez and me, pretty much. audience member: how would you recommend a local artist, whos pretty small in scale to cross over [to the usa], because that's where the target audience is at, not here. how would you recommend in terms of marketing, etc.? that's a really big problem, and that's a problem that riot, who are alumni here at bpm, are facing currently in la. and they're an excellent band and everything, but in the trap bass genre and such, if the big names aren't

representing you, you've got a problem. so what i would recommend, is getting in touch with borgore, skrillex, i don't know, if any of them like it... look at slushii, a young artist, who's huge today, why? because skrillex liked it. audience member: i worked with him twice! so there you go, point your stuff at the big guys, because if they like it, they'll promote it. no other way will work.audience member: even if i physically move to la? doesn't matter where you move, if one of those big names in that field - if i support it, it'll make no difference.

because i'm not a big name in the bass scene, or in trap. but if borgore supports it, that's your way in... just look at jauz, and all of those things, borgore brought all of those guys in. they're all signed on buygore, you know? rain man of krewella, all of those guys. so that's where you need- to aspire.audience member: even though you said riot are stuck? riot is kind of in between, because they have some tracks that did really well in the dubstep charts, but still, if no big name will take them in, they're in trouble. audience member: what is your mastering setup? 'domestic'...

the new album which is psytrance was sent to domestic, and that's the first time, because up until now we have been mastering our own stuff. so now, we don't have the time nor the energy to master, because it's really tedious work. erez: 3 kids, 3 kids no, the mixes we do on our own. but it gets sent to domestic, because he specializes in psytrance and he's at it for hours on end, and he'll say "listen to that treble" and i'll just say "great, great". "great" and yeah, he does a fine job, and that's it.mastering...is not interesing.

audience member: when you start writing a track, are all of the melodies already in your head? by the way that was a dick answer just now,duvdev: what was? 'how do you go about mastering your tracks?''send them to domestic' that's right!erez: what kind of response is that? duvdev: that's legit, thougherez: you didn't answer anything with that. duvdev: did you master these tracks?erez: the new ones i didn't... no! we don't master anymore, mastering is an issue. anyway, you were a dick just nowduvdev: why? i was promoting domestic shachaf: domestic705@gmail.comduvdev: exactly

about the melodies, no. it usually starts either with a certain idea, which can be a bassline, or a guitar riff, or a melody. because of the plugins erez and myself have been working on and with lately, such as "iwish", and a new plugin we will discuss shortly, a lot of the time i would just sing a melody in giberrish into the microphone, then it would go through some processing, like "iwish" or something like that, and then we move on ... to the kick and bassline audience member: oh, so before the kick and bass? before the kick and bassline. sometimes.

unless there's already a good kick and bassline, then that'll come first. audience member: hey, 2 questions- at what age did you start- by the way, that's cool, but i can't hear you read his lips or something. audience member: it's a 2-part question - at what age did you start producing together? together? i was 21 and erez was 16?erez: 16 erez: you're so old manduvdev: fuck man audience member: we all know success can take a toll on you, as i can only imagine. has that toll affected your creativity? i would imagine after 20 years-

definitely, definitely takes a toll on our creativity. definitely. these days we can't afford to spend a month on one bit, you know, because there are deadlines for the albums it suddenly becomes "i want that album finished now" because it would have to be sent to press in 3-4 months, so erez and i just 'tch tch tsh tsh tsh'. yes. so there is a toll that's taken on our creativity and you have to realize that at some point, you know? but if you take it lightly, it's not that bad, you know? let's say a track is a blast at 4:30 [length]. back in the day we would extend it to 8. today we might take it up to 5:20, and with the new style, everyone's doing -

dubstep and trap, making 4:30-long tracks - boom, you know? with 2 buildups, 2 drops that are the same- we like it. it's a blast.erez: copy+paste. it's a blaaast. you don't neet 7,000 stories in your track. but yes there is some toll taken on our creativity. audience member: what are your thoughts about working with - do you guys have anything running on the master track while working? nope, it's clean. audience member: there's an ido [ophir, of domestic] on the master. on the last album, you can ask ido.

erez: i can tell you something about mastering if you want. we do separate the lower frequencies in the track: when the kick is running, there are no lows in the rest of the track and when the kick isn't playing, we just bring that cutoff back to the bass frequencies. we don't apply any sidechaining on the volumeduvdev: yeah we don't use an envelope shaper or such, just bring up the cutoff when the kick and bass are runningerez: we have a hipass filter running, and once the kick comes out it goes back. audience member: like what you built in reaktor?erez: we did in in reaktor quickly just to save time, it can't be on a single parameter, because it depends on the kick's tuning and bass note and such. audience member: do you use that ensemble a lot?erez: on every track

audience member: are you planning on releasing it? maybe, we already have it up for free on our forum[infected-mushroom.com/forum/] we want to release it as a vst plugin, but our programmer is pretty much against it. he thinks it's too simple. audience member: are you planning on releasing a vst instrument? we already have several. audience member: not a vst effect, an instrument, like sylenth[1], spire, etc. oh, a synth. we're working on something, but it'll be a while before it gets released. a long while, because development on a synth is a big deal.

because we also want to do something that's not out there today, something new. take serum for example... [steve] duda worked on that for 4 years, that's crazy and he created a masterpiece. so yeah, the synth will be a while... audience member: how long will we wait? a long while. but, we use our current tools as synths - with iwish and the new plugin, both of are being used as synths audience member: the waves plugin?erez: no, the waves one is more for sonic improvement

and such. but i'm talking about a new plugin that no one has heard of yet. audience member: i'm roy, and i'm a hardcore fan. the best thing you guys do is combining guitars in trance both: oki also make trance with guitars, and my influence for that is you guys. my question is - what influenced you to do that, as you guys pretty much created it. we like guitars regardless...we like guitars, we don't call it 'guitar trance' we just call it a guitar accompanying a kick drum, which is a problematic story, as you know

yes and no, the new album which is a bit more psytrance, there are some tracks - groove attack, and a couple more, like flamingo which do have guitars in them the biggest problem with guitars that erez and i have is1. that we can't play guitar, and 2. there are no guitarists around. so what we do is, we record him playing it really slowly, and we chop it up, to make it sound- we come from heavy metal, you know? we come from [bands like] tool, pantera, and stuff like that, we like that stuff, but to be able to play like tool's guitarist? we don't know how, so- erez: so we record in one note at a time, or just a part and chop it up. audience member: what about "herbert the pervert"? was that played in?

erez: "herbert the pervert"?duvdev: pfft...who remembers erez: yesduvdev: i don't remember what he's talking about erez: [sings the guitar part from "herbert the pervert"] we played that?-yep i think so, then.great. erez: you come out better, like saying 'i recorded that'...duvdev: that's a great part... audience member: if there's no guitarist around aren't you better off writing it in midi and somehow sending it over to a guitarist? we want to make good time, finish the track and move on.

what you said is perferrable if you have a guitarist around, sure, but usually at 10pm- audience member: well i would think that if there was no guitarist there wouldn't be any guitar-based ideas but- no, no, no, we don't have time for that. boom, boom boom we record in some guitars - tshk tshk tshk usually without any distortion and then we'll use something like guitar rig or the eventide or such, because having it clean will make it easier to cut up i always, we usually get asked what mine and erez's expertise is, and i'd like to mention that here again it's slicing [samples]. we've been slicing for 20 years now.[laughs]

erez: a pencil and a pair of scissorsduvdev: each time it's for a different reason, but 20 years of pak pak pak in the smallest possible resolution there is, and then, if you really put an emphasis on the slicing, you can eventually make everything sound normal, that's a little piece of advice. audience member: i get to a point where i have about 30 tracks running over 5 minutes- that's a great question - track stucture. yes, continue. and then i would get to a point and say "i'm a bit fed up with what i've got here" so i go back to the beginning,

and this happens on every track, i go back to the kick and bass and just start completely losing myself. so, again, i got where you were going with that. we used to construct tracks the old fashioned psytrance way which is parallel, right? 50 tracks altogether, but that actually holds no meaning if you want to tell a story, because if they're all playing together what did you make here, you know? today we have a totally different approach - we focus on certain points in the track, and then construct a couple of stories and try to connect them together, and then it makes more sense, you know? because if you construct everything in parallel, at some point you'll say "eh...that fits" -

a part that doesn't fit in with something else isn't necessarily bad, it can come in at a different moment in the track and sound amazing. you know? but if you build everything in parallel and something doesn't fit in you'll say "oh that sucks", but it's not true, so that's how we work today, it can change, and it depends on what type of music you do right? so yes, don't construct it in parallel, just try working with several parts and connecting them. audience member: i have a question about live performances - how do you protect your ears? do you use plugs? we have in-ears

in-ears for everyone but to tell you our hearing hasn't been damaged - it has. erez and i can't hear treble frequencies, so if you ever hear a lot of treble in our albums, that's because someone else added it in... and it wasn't neccessary. sorry! we can't hear iterez: domestic probably can't hear it either audience member: what do you mean you can't hear trebles? which frequency can't you hear past? we don't hear any treble, let it go[laughs] shachaf: ok, so let's leave some questions to the end of the lecture because i'm thinking we'll still have some-

ok, you're the last one. audience member: i get this a lot - i wake up and have a melody in my head. has that happened to you? plenty of times - iphone > voice recorder. the iphone's voice recorder, i bring it in to the studioerez: he brings it into the studio and probably has about 400 recordings in there now.duvdev: about 200 recordings erez will say "ehh, this sucks, that's awful, that one's good" the iphone's voice recorder saves that thing that we never had audience member: ok this is a yes/no question: okerez: yes/no is half a question, it's alright

audience member: when you switched your dynaudio out for your new monitors different worlds. a totally different world yes, and now we're demolishing the entire studio and changing around the entire room's setup...yes. audience member: thank you very muchaudience member: which monitor is that? barefootshachaf: ok let's continue because if we don't we'll stay here for hours in questions, let's leave some questions to the end- if you still have questions, no worries, you'll get your time. let's talk about some of your personal developments, you guys have spend the past couple of years working on some vsts and products that from what i gather are making your life easier, as they haven't existed until now.

so let's talk a bit about iwish which was released about a year ago? as you've stated, first of all erez and i created some very easy devices in reaktor. erez was medically addicted to reaktor for yearserez: yeah, i'm in rehabilitaion now. he's rehabilitating now, but back in the day you would catch him in his free time with reaktor running, and he would hide it saying "no, no that's not [what i'm doing...]" 16-18 hours on reaktor actually, developing tools that would help us, be it like a gate, as you've stated earlier so gates, kick/bass over, and all these types of things, and this is essentially where the initial idea for iwish came in,

but the problem with reaktor is that it's limited in a way, so- erez: well the problem with me is that i'm also kind of limited because i don't i don't know reaktor well enough to make a plugin that's at the level i desire. so we met assaf [dar], and his partner- assaf dar from polyverse who is a crazy-level programmer and- erez: there's also aviram, who is a mad geniousduvdev: so they're living in a spaceship, we're here, and there are a lot of arguments between the spaceship and here, and then actually a plugin is made. and it takes two years of trial and error. the first plugin.-iwish, the first plugin, had 19 or 20 versions before

we released a demo-yeah. and eventually it came out and we were very fond of the idea, and what we're trying to deliver at 'polyverse and infected mushroom' is plugins that don't yet exist because if you go and you release a reverb-it's very pretentious, because there are 5,000 companies around the world right now that are making reverb units, and they're mostly good. most of them are good simply going out and making a reverb, where can i deliver the.... so we try to bring in a factor that supposedly doesn't exist , that wouldn't always work, because - ok, iwish didn't exist, didn't exist.

i won't say our next plugin doesn't exist today, but what it does -erez: it doesn't exist either. yeah it doesn't exist either.erez: there's nothing like it. we try to bring in something that doesn't already exist, it won't always be like iwish but that's the idea behind making plugins for people like you guys, who make music and are looking for that weird sound. weird is our field, right erez?erez: yep, halloucinations. you won't find a delay by us. no, actually we have an amazing delay, you will find one, sorry so how have you used it in your album? how is it reflected in the music? well, iwish, as you've stated, how we've used it in the album - "converting vegetarians 2" was made entirely in iwish.

why? because we were testing out 19 versions of it. when you're testing 19 versions and making music as you go, and it took 2 years, like the album, so every track in "converting 2" holds some iwish, even if it's not emphasized on vocal triggers or such it's on everything..erez: on basses in the background, on guitars in the background, on reverbs in the background- plenty, hi-hats, it never ends. your signature in vocals has been that way way before iwish was out there. how did you find yourself copying that over to iwish, how did that go? like, did you feel like it made you life easier? did it give you exactly what you were looking for? it depends on which track you're talking about, because we used to use melodyne

for certain things, it was a lot of time working on that, and iwish is instant, it's like you're recording some vocals and you can even use it live the original iwish was done in sound forge, over 4 days of slicing 4 days of slicing up the vocals, to create the perfect pitch and that was actually the same idea we transfered to assaf who shortened the process by - the first draft took him 7 minutes?erez: about 20 minutes or so he said "yeah no problem", and sketched it out - boom boom boom and it worked, but after that, to go and do what that plugin does - 2 years of work.

amazing.duvdev: yes so other than iwish there's that new plugin that you guys are working on - the manipulator i know it's a little on the down low, but roughly speaking, what can we know that it does? the new manipulator is a new technology of pitch recognition, and you may hear in infected's albums that i would be singing very high and we would call it duvdevina or stuff like that everytime we would do it in a different plugin like steinberg [voice designer] or melodyne, etc... this is a new device that takes that to a crazy level of pitch recognition because the problem with pitch recognition, is that a computer would take your singing, and

assign it to a note, but between two notes there my be some breathing, or artifacts of sorts, and it doesn'tgood, it sounds weird, and the final goal for manipulator - we're not there yet is that if you sing, and you want it to sound like someone else, you'll have a preset for that and that'll be liveerez: all of that will be live, with no latency. there's also the possibility of live timestretching - 'smear'duvdev: yeah we call it... the technology sounds weird, but it works yeah, and we just made 2 new tracks which are completely - most of them - well one is called 'manipulator',

which was entirely done on that plugin and it just...just gave us a load of new ideas, it's funny, because we're promoting ourselves here what's cool about this plugin is that even the stuff that doesn't work properly makes weird sounds new sounds, yeah which is another thing you have to consider, because say it didn't recognize the guitar properly, but it turned it into a space shuttle, so you like it, so you save the presetaudience member: can you demonstrate maybe? yeah, we can demonstrateerez: we can try it

we're not sure if it will work, either... it's a space shuttle so that's one thingduvdev: that's a simple example after that we'll get asked "did you spend a whole week on that lead sound?" and i did nothing. you just sing into it. the technology - some would say it's a vocoder, but it's not really - it's a bunch of different pitches on each note, that he can play as he goes, live the main uses for us here are live, but i think that when manipulator comes out - you'll be able to make some crazy sounds with it - like at levels of - easily 'duvdevina', but i'm talking about much more - this has timestretching,

which isn't exactly timestrechingerez: wait let's show off some of that timestretching let's show it off, yeah you want to show it off live? let's play a track whose end is all - ok, just play the track.. so the end here, from 'dry', transforms into this stretched, well, not really stretched - 'smear'ed, we call it smear and it's a new button in this plugin essentially every channel is routed into the manipulator but what's cool about this, as opposed to timestretching, is that it retains its pitch because erez is playing it - timestretched.erez: so you get a pitched timestretch

and not just timestretching that you need to re-pitch, you just play it - have a listen that voice in the background is also him. so you're playing the part for him? the midi?erez: just one note, so it knows how to pitch that's what we did in this situation. everything is routed to this plugin. here the guitar's already warped inside the plugin... on top of that you can add -erez: you can add an instance of iwish and tweak the formants and stuff, space shuttles...duvdev:a simple example, and it'll eventually work. much respect![applause]-thank you so wait, i don't know who where saw the demo with iwish, it's really one of the crazy things

i saw in my life, but the thing is, we also talked about this - that most of the artist don't know how to use it the coolest thing about iwish is that you don't know how to use it. and why is that - because erez and i can keep using it - because if everyone could do what we do with iwish - and again, it's not because we're better - simply because we developed it and we know its tricks there are things inside iwish - what we initially asked users to send us as examples to see what users were successfully doing with it, because we see it as very simple - but it's not that simple for everyone - it's complicated - and if that's complicated - manipulator is about 700 steps above that in compexity

erez: in terms of optionsduvdev: and that's a problem for us because we want you to get to the result we have in our head, but it's problematic but as long as there's a gap between what you achieve and - erez and i keep using it, because there are some uses of it that we do that no one would think of what's cool about iwish is that you can also use it on effects, and not alot of people do that, they always use it on vocals. try using it on a reverb, for instance and retrigger that reverb, in a way that no device could retrigger that reverb because it's using a note and it'll create an effect that doesn't exist on any reverb, and people don't usually take it in that direction - or on a delay, or whatever

it's got thousands of uses, and that's what's cool about this device, it's simple and doesn't crash, no bugs i think we need a demonstration, i personally want to see it for iwish? ok. live?erez: just say something well the 'wet' is also coming through, through the mic just a sine of a voice going into - audience member: well if you had input a sine wave, wouldn't it sound the same? -no-duvdev: it would sound weird and different i'd rather - yes - but it would still be weird it's very important to play with iwish's release parameter, because if you really want it to be on time, or

if you want it to come a little later because if you want to use it in vocals, if your source is singing and you know the song "..i wish to give to take" - so that source stays untouched at the beginning and the trigger comes later so it's aaaaaaaaaarghghghghghghghghgh you know? you'll want to, for the vocals, retrigger that a bit later than the source, but if you want to play with it [real time], you gotta have it on the 'one' audience member: can you use it on something weirder, like drums?

we can use it on whatever you want. drums... whatever you want take a hi-hat, make it into a pad... so the sound doesn't change how it reacts no. the simplest sound can come out the craziesterez: this was a very aggressive setting, but you can apply it gently, it depends on the situation so if it was on a reverb that would be-duvdev: reverb, that's a good point - people would use a big reverb, and then you can load up an iwish after that it'll be like aaaahhhhhhhrrrrrrrrrrrr only the reverb is being retriggered, on pitch, and then you're playing it

so think about, someone would hear the reverb effect - being played so what we do is we always have this channel which would be the 'dry' signal and then we get a wave of the reverb which is just the reverb - 100% wet and then on that wet reverb, you can do whatever you want so in this case we would use an iwish, and then you can play the iwish on that reverb once in a while and it gives you something a bit different details that...secrets of the trade shachaf: does anyone have any questions about the plugin? audience member: wait - so "i wish" (the track) was done with this plugin?

nope, that was all manual, it was all manual and it took many hours.. we wish ;) in sound forgeerez: but that's where the idea originated. audience member: you actually sliced all of that-erez: we sliced like bitches yeah, itty bitty loops, until it sounded right, and then pitch it and then construct the whole word and every word like that would take a really long time, and unfortunately the song has alot of words audience member: how long did that track take? the vocal slices took 4 days. -that's also quick

erez: but this is tiring, it's very boring workduvdev: were pretty...yeah it's tiring, it's 4 whole days, this is back in the days when it would be 4 days and nothing [else] to do, easily 16 hours in the studio yeah...well today we also spend alot of hours in the studio, it's enough audience member: seeing as we discussed psytrance earlier, as people who live in the usa - how do you view the development of psytrance in the usa, because you can tell it's starting to rise - there are sparks out there of psytrance rising up in the usa. what do you think about that? it's not starting now, you know, over the past couple of years has seen big psytrance djs playing us venues, it started with astrix, it went through to shachaf, without a doubt, and a series of other artists that have been playing the us,

there's this brand called dreamstate, which promotes psytrance exclusively, which is cool because suddenly you'll have this big organization like insomnia which pushes this kind of brand all over the us usc are involved, as well as some other organizations and it's cool, and the reason it happened is not because americans fell in love with psytrance, it's just that there's so much edm in america, that it's about damn time psytrance came in, ok? we see it as a blessing, and it's a good thing, and i hope it'll grow over the next couple of years, which it looks like it is. i think we need to talk about that usa thing, because it seems like something that younger artists - - like riot made that migration because they know that the scene over there is growing,

and i remember speaking with erez about that, when you said "what's the highest point you can get to locally?""what's the highest point you can get to in the usa?" yeah, and i'll say it again, he came out with that question earlier and it's a proper question, it doesn't matter what the type of music you make, whether it's bass, trap, trance, house, and such - it has a market in the us - but that doesn't mean you're going to move there and become huge, i have to clear that up for everyone the chances of that are miniscule, right? you need to promote [your music/self] to thought leaders in that field - if it's in trance and i will think that you're the greatest upcoming trance act, i will 'sell' it

to people i know, like eyal [yankovich] from homega, which is a big label, and such and they'll say "check it out, duvdev is talking about that guy and it's trance.." and they'll listen to me - but if i say that about dubstep - i don't know shit about dubstep, you know? erez: you need to get discovered, basicallyduvdev: but if borgore will say it, that's a different story and that's the way it works, you need someone from that field you belong to, - doesn't matter which field in electronic music - will recognize you the move to the us is not the issue here. the issue is someone who is a thought leader in that specific field, which you work in, will take you under their wing, and then the path to where you need to get will be available so who took you in when you went to the us?

we're a different story - and i'll explain. now i want to explainshachaf: yes, that's what i was aiming at i want to explain why our case is different: when erez and i arrived in the us, first of all there was no edm scene - at all. and erez and i came to the us not to make trance big in america there, but just to collaborate with some hard rock acts and things we couldn't achieve back then, like we did with johnathan davis of korn, and with jane's addiction, all of these types of things that we wanted to do, and for that we moved to american for one year, it escalated to a 12-year stay thanks in part to the edm scene in america, we didn't expect that, but we went there for a different purpose not to make psytrance - we moved as a big band that works every weekend

so it's not something that - that we needed, it makes us not a good example because we went there just because, it was just a location. you could place us 10 years ago in england, or - we would still get work every weekendshachaf: do you think that being in the us contributed to your success? of course, because in our case - we moved there and edm had just exploded and we were already there, so it worked to our benefit, but it's not something we foresaw when we moved, people are like "aaah" - we didn't see it coming...erez: yeah but we had made like 200 tracks, it's not like we had just done one album, and that's it.

but was there still a lack of confidence when you arrived, did you say like "this is the us"- nah..erez: no, it was the bomb, we moved there, shachaf: super easy?duvdev: super easyerez: totally super easy. we rented a flat together, we were two couples at the time, and had the studio in the same house- our biggest album, "vicious delicious" was made in that house in the most easygoing way there is, you know?shachaf: nonchalant trips to brazil for a month here, there...it was a different time, but it's not that it was the us, that's not what did it for us

maybe so with "vicious delicious" because were influenced by hard rock so you can hear through "vicious delicious", "artillery", "heavyweight", all that stuff, even "becoming insane" itself was very much influenced by 'guitar trance' as you put it earlier it was just this time period, but it's not america that did it, it's just something we wanted to do. today, do you feel that the us affected your creation?like the local industry, because things over there work very differently than the way they work here, from what i saw at least and you always need to be either bringing the next best thing, and if you're not a 20-year old kid, chances are, from what i gather, that it's very difficult to bring the next best thing,

and then you find yourself kind of following what's happening in that scene so to say that it affects us today - no, because here we go making a psytrance album, but 4 years ago it affected us very muchshachaf: yeah that's what i was getting at when we did "friends on mushrooms" you can hear a lot of dubstep in there, a lot of glitch hop, but it's not because of that scene, it's because we got into that stuff erez: we got exposed to it and thought it was coolduvdev: in came these bands like pegboard nerds, which i've known for years from denmark - i like pegboard nerds, i just like them, so we wanted to do something similar, you know? here's an artist like opiou or koan sound from london, we love that, you know?erez: amazing.

so we tried doing something similar, it's not because of the scene, and here's a fact - koan sound isn't very big in the us today you know? shachaf: it's too intelligentduvdev: it's too... too bassline and gwaachhhblch erez: we like itshachaf:it was a good time though it was a great time, but we- erez and i work more from what we like to hear, and not necessarily what works on the dance floor, because what works on the dance floor - as you know - varies from country to country.

a track that takes brazil by storm could be played in the us and people would just stand there like "..." "what is that kick and bassline all about?" no one cares about that, you know? theres still a feeling that for the us, psytrance is new to those guys yeah, psytrance is new, and coolerez: yeah, it's growing larger it's cool, you'll see it and people still aren't sure how to dance to iterez: it's growng and advancing in a great way we'll suddenly hear, when we get booked for a gig, and the promoter will ask us "are you going to play any psytrance?"it makes us laugh shachaf: yeah, that's messed upduvdev: like are you serious? whatever

audience member: i wanted to ask - how technical are you when you're working? in terms of working with linear phase eqs, or using eq in a musical way and using it on the fundamental freuqencies of the kick and bass i want to be the most straightforward that i can be with this - this whole story started because of the rms war. before the rms war erez and i wouldn't even pay attention to that. audience member: did you used to work by ear, erez?erez: by ear kick is over there, that's there, that one's over there, space shuttles erez: no, listen, even today, it's 90% by ear - 99% by ear, it's what sounds best to us. sometimes things we expect to sound good, because it's supposed to be +1,000,000 dithering or oversampling

-it doesn't always sound better, so we make what sounds good to us, if it works, let's move on, good enough for our ears.duvdev:i'll give you an example, a while back, dc offset and stuff like that, we would completely ignore that today, regrettably, no because you can't reach those rms levels if you don't take care of that exactly, so i told you, and you knew the answer, when the rms war started, those rules came into play - kick and bass on the same frequency, clearing up of frequencies from over there, brainworx and all of their methods, stetro erez: which ruins the musicality of the trackduvdev: it ruins the musical side of things,

but we have no choice, we have no choice. we're there, you're asking if we do that, yes we're not crazy about itaudience member: nobody's crazy about it on "converting vegetarians 2" there's none of thaterez: we didn't do anything you didn't master it? erez: no mastering, it's got no masteringduvdev: no, it's got no level erez: it's completely dynamicduvdev: it's at -6 [dbfs] erez: drag it into a wave [display] check out how low it isduvdev: -6, do what you want with it check that out, no problemerez: yeah kick on bass? you don't need no envelope shaper, or any cuts, just a kick on bass

you know why? because kicks and basses are meant to be together. when you raise the rms levels you start getting problems with distortion audience member: so today you've surrendered to that [trend]? what do you mean surrendered? it depends on the type of music and the album on "converting vegeterians 2" there's nothing. now, on the new album, there is. you know, there's a problem, you've got to reach that track but those limitations also make the track sound the way it does so we do our best to create it as we go, and listen on the way, and then we make it better yeah so you're preventing that - for instance, when you have the kick and bass on the same note and

on the same bass frequency, it prevents alot of the issues when the kick is on f and the bass is on f as well, it prevents trouble, it doesn't mean the track will be less creative, so we avoid that in the first place, you know? there are some points in what you said, especially in spectral analysis and such, we're not crazy about it but it's inevitable, it's inevitable audience member: does the new album average at -3.5? the highest value there is. ask domestic how high he gets it well, we don't want to ruin it no, that's the way it is

high, it'll be a high rms value let's go over some final questions, like 2-3 final questions, so that we can see you guys in action, i think it'll be cool, people will be glad to see you guys make something from scratch i have one question, before everyone else, which i thought of beforehand, and that's the only one i had prepared:duvdev:beforehand how do you guys tolerate each other over 20 years?! how do you not murder one another? how do you hold up a marriage like this, because it's a marriage like any other, as far as i see it

20 years while every other band you see falls apart after just a couple of years we don't fight over nonsense, we argue over stuff to do with the music, and stuff related to serious subjects most of the people you see, bands that break up after 4 years, and such, it's usually about money 99% percent of the time it's moneyerez: yeah 99% of the time it's money one guy suddenly dates the same woman the other one used to, stuff like that or a womanerez :or a woman it's either women or money - we're married with childernduvdev: we're both divorced we set the music asideerez: we're both from the townships area in israel, we don't care about money and such, we live well

we give each other space when we're not making music, which is important so really, and not just for this panel, anyone that knows us knows, we don't fuck around it's useless, ego and all of that crap you have to set aside and we drink plenty of alcohol, and alcoholics fight less that's new, that's new you know it's less fighting okduvdev: as you know, you don't want to fight right now either that's right, i don't want to fight you but alright, i think it'll be cool if we witness you guys work on something from scratch,

so these guys can see some of your trickserez: from scratch? it's just not a computer that we use to make music, it's just a computer that... i think, just some live demonstrations will do excuses already, did you see? "it's not my computer..." "i'm not sure what to do with it..." shachaf: the floor is crooked...", "it's not my mac..." erez: tell me what you guys want to see, what do i know, i've got...let's see what we've got here yeah, some questions in the meantime, until he gets set up, does anyone have another question? yes, you. tons of questions, cool audience member: are you for side-chain or...

for side-chain or not, again, it depends on the music, if you're doing dubstep or glitch you have to. you have to, that's the essence of it audience member: house also house, whatever and a whole genre came out of that, so yeah, if you're into that you have to do it in psytrance? it's uncalled for. audience member: would you prefer the studio conditions of today, or back in the day? in terms of gear, software, and everything - do you still spend 16 hours in the studio? of course, the 16 hours wasn't because-

it's not a matter of gearerez: it's like a bunch of hyped up kids playing around on a playstation, eager to finish that one screen and you get really excited, that's how we got, we're addicted to it i know you don't understand what we're talking about but let me explain it to you - when you have 3 kids, there's no way you're going to work 16 hours in the studio, die, because your wife will kick you in the face [laughs] that's not a plugin, that's a real kick to the face that's definite.

you won't get the chance that's reality, you know, we have lives, and such, we can't- today, our method for work is which is not a nightly routine, it's like an office, 9 to 3erez: and we fly on the weekends on that side, yes. audience member: seeing as everything sounds the same today, how do you manage to make something that's different? that's really not that simple, i can't recommend you anything for that you just have to make a ton of music, and gradually understdnt what you like the most, and do that

and just bring that unexpected element that's right. for every track, you have 50 that sound the same ask astrix every track he releases has another 50 that sound just like it, but he's a little different. he's got a lot of people imitating him he's a bit different. if you find your shade, and every artist, and even shachaf, who's sitting here he's not here for no reason, it's because he's got something, i can't say what it is, that makes him different from another artist, and makes people want to listen to him and every artist that eventually builds up a following, that has people who want to listen to him,

has got something that's a bit different and yeah, there are copycats, and other stuff that sounds the same exist, but they don't last long they don't have a long shelf life. at the end of the day you're going to have to be different. what do i recommend you do for that? i don't know shachaf: actually i have something, if you will-i think you need to get into the studio completely fresh, i mean, it's good to gather influence from everything but for me, when i get into the studio, i say "i don't want to sound like this guy, and not like that guy, and not like that guy." i prefer taking a bit from here, there, and there, putting it all in a basket,

and creating something that may even sound a bit weird to me, that i would hear it and say "wow", like, for me, nothing sounds like infected [mushroom] even if i were to listen to 40 artists that were trying to sound like them - i would still hear one of their tracks and i'll know that's infected. and that's because, you know, they get into it, and they work on each sound separately, and apply their touch to everything,and that's something that every artist that wants to call them self an artist, and to have their own color has to do, in my opinion erez: hard workshachaf: very hard, it doesn't end. ask

me?yes you. ok, i heard a crazy remix for "yamakas [in space]" it'll be on tommorow's show, right?erez: mm hm that's an israeli artist named modulation? he lives in laerez: modulation, an israeli audience member: ori rubinduvdev: yeah, ori he did an excellent job on "yamakas in space", he got the files, he lives in la through some girl who knows us and yeah, he did an excellent job, and we're playing in the section called '130 bpm' amazing, he's great artistduvdev: yeah, great

yo audience member: so you guys work on each track separately, each sound on it's own completely separated, everything's separated so you'd never route two tracks to the same reverb, or- there are almost never any sends, that's very rare it's very rare for us to send- audience member: that's not what i'm talking about, i'm talking about a channel where i've place a piece of audio, and it's got like... no but what you said - if you have a channel that's being sent to a long reverb

to which to send several other tracks as well, just as an example, we don't do that we treat each sound differently, even if it's a reverb, it'll have a different reverb you never use them as inserts? we do use insertsduvdev: not if it's external gear, like the eventide or the lexicon, then it would be through sends. and we immediately record that back as audio, never leave it online. yeah, so that it will load up properly when you open the project later, let's not- i want to address a subject no one asked about - that's tidying up your tracks everyone here was talking about 150-300 tracks, but then this guy shows up and says "i want stems" - that's horrible. do you have any idea what tidying up an infected mushroom track is like?

it's the biggest mess you can imagine we lose it- after two days, we can't even find the project in the computer, we can't remember what we named it you know? that's an issue that consumes so much of your time - tidying up tracks and we trying hiring a guy to tidy up our tracks erez: it wasn't bad but-duvdev: the concept wasn't bad, but it didn't - erez: no, noduvdev: it didn't work out erez: there were alot of mistakesduvdev: plenty audience member: so what if someone wants to remix one of your tracks?

go ahead look, some of the files we provide, others sit at the label, and they pick out and distribute, you know sometimes they have remix competitions like they have had in the past and that's the way, you know, not everyone can- on most of our tracks today, it's pretty managable to get to those final files, so-called stems. well in the case of - what's their name?duvdev: riot?erez: riot we had a remix competitionduvdev: it was a competition, for "kipod" right? for "kipod"

and there were many good remixes, but theirs was the best, so we chose it as a winner it hit the #1 on beatport after that they had another remix for the track with sasha grey also hit #1 on beatport and they just did an excellent job it has a lot to do with our taste, that's what he's saying i'm saying, just participate in a lot of remix competitions, it's very important in my opinion, because that way, people will get exposed to you, if you don't do anything, no one will notice you, it's very difficult,

because there are thousands and tens of thousands of, you know, people are trying to do basically do the same thing. audience member: which artist provided the most beneficial or the most interesting collaboration? the most what?-useful, fun, insightful i think all of our collaborations have been useful, from each one we learn something different in the past it was with smon posford from shpongle, from which we learned a lot of stuff and tricks, avi algranati [space cat], back in the day, who taught us many things when we were first starting out, all these types of routing options for gates and such, but, you know - if you look at johnathan davis, for me he's a crazy metal vocalist, so everything is - any collaboration is beneficial because it changes us

even with jã¶rg , by the way, one time we worked with jã¶rg, and i heard this sketch of his, and i said "what's up with these volumes man?" and he said "i just crank it up and distort it" and well, it sounded good... you learn something from everybodyduvdev: every collaboration is useful for us because it takes us out of our zone and it leads us to a new place. yes - you audience member: yeah, you talked earlier about something to do with parallel production - - so practically speaking, what's the alternative?

i think your train of thought needs to be - you're listening to - you start with the kick and bassline and that's the intro to your track and you're content with it think about what needs to come in later in the track, if you were listening to an other arttist's track, and just add whatever needs to come in later in, work on it in the parallel method, like he's saying if you had a kick and bassline and 20 additional parts, what you would then take is one of those parts and have that be the intro, okay? we don't like working like that if you have a kick, a bassline, and a snare that are going to be the first part of your track, think about a different intro don't take a part that's already sitting in with that kick and bassline as an intro

that's what we mean by don't work [in parallel]there's a limit, you need to work in parallel some of the time, like you need your hi-hats to sit well with the snare, ok? that's not what i'm talking about- i mean i don't want you to - never mind what i want we don't work that way, we don't construct our entire track in parallel we're like, we get an initial groove going, and we say that's the first entrance, boom, we move on to the intro, you know? and that intro is going to be something else, and it's not necessarily going to sit well with that kick and bassline, it doesn't have to. audience member: so every part comes in as a stand-alone unit? yes, but it needs to be somewhat related.duvdev: somewhat related

you're not going to go and break that relation, unless it's a psychadelic track that demands it like "heavyweight", then you do whatever you want. if it's a freestyle, then there are no rules at allerez: no rules. and the more complex it gets, you'll be saying "wow, that's crazy" it's not that crazy, it's just a segment that has nothing to do with this segment, and we somehow connected them, no need to overreact sometimes it's crazy....yes, you audience member: do you guys have a usual template you use in cubase? we have a color templateduvdev: a color template

excellent question, and also the project would load up at 145 bpm that's not the case today, today it loads up with no bpmerez: it's 140 today, i think audience member: ..but to make the process more efficient, don't you have any shortcuts? shortcuts are great, but no, we're the type of peole who like to torture themselves with stuff like finding a new kick every time that's one mistake already, a bad mistakeerez: yeah, a waste of time but if you like it, it's spending like a day or two just on the kick and snare, even if they're sample-based but yeah, we have a color template that's very important

audience member: you said you didn't l ike it, but everything in your tracks is perfect didn't like what? no, wait a minute -you said you didn't like spending hours on the kick - no, no, no, wait a second, we like sitting in the studio very much, very much but we decide what to spend more time on, or less time on -yes but you can't hear it duvdev: just a second, if there was a day in which we would be bummed because we spent all day on the kick, but in the end we god a kick-ass kick, we would like that day, you know? yes, yes, yes, yes, yes

but while you're producing, you don't need to spend so much time on that kick, because it's not going to change the track -but everything you do sounds polished we like it, we like being in the studio, period.erez: it's just bad ocd man well, you're talking about being in the studio, we like being in the studio more than benig anywhere else, yes to that - either at a gig or in the studio -and those connections? we want to be there yes, but we choose what to spend our time on yeserez: yeah, wait a minute, this guy had a question ok go

audience member: what is your volume most of the time? is it soft, loud... soft.-soft, until we need to check the mix sometimes we turn it up for a while, but most of the the volume's pretty low, like speaking volume audience member: are there any remixes set to be released in the future? like stuff for your older tracks erez: yepduvdev: "suliman" is going to be released, "gravity waves", "bust a move" on the newer side, "symphonatic", plenty audience member: how did you guys get to a point where you're playing shows, from a place like the townships are, at a time without youtube? duvdev: it was a different timeerez: it was a different time, labels, different time, different story - we started out with 5 friends in the townships, 10 friends - forest party,

20, 100 suddenly we're talking about a party in tel-aviv, well first there was hadera, in between god forbid - tel-aviv after that tel-aviv, our case is different, today is a whole different story audience member: it's supposedly much easier if you've got a successful hit, it's much easier - if not, then no but it is easier nonetheless. audience member: what is your opinion on all of these new producers, and the 'modernization' of electronic music? you can't fight this progress - that's the way it is.

you can get bummed out and what not, but that's the way things are you know, the fact that there these loop packs which you can use to make an entire track from scratch, and put your name on it, although you've done nothing - yeah, so what? thats the way things are can you fight it? you have that option, but to be something unique, you need something beyond that you need some melody which is not 'copy / paste', but something you made... a sample that came from a movie that's not one that 40 artists have already sampled, but one that you would do and make people say "hey, what's that? what did he do here?"

you still need to be special to stand out if you're looking for work, look for work in it, lots of artists are looking for work in that but you can't fight what's already happening, you just need to advance and get with the program - that's all there is audience member: could one hear more frequency and harmonic content under certain influences? erez: i have no ideaduvdev: even if you're under the influence of something, you wouldn't know that you're hearing those frequencies you can get tripped out by - that's a tough question erez: that's a tough question?duvdev: it's about circles of happiness, it's a very tough question audience member: because sometimes there are things that happen which we can't hear but we can feel in our bodies erez: that's right, without a doubtduvdev: probably

-and most of our audience is aware of that type of thing... if that;s your claim, and i get it, we have always been asked "how do you do-" -you know, these different frequencies well, first of all - yes, but, we've always been told "you're making music that-" i think, and that's always been an initial assumption between erez and i - if i can make a sober grandma dance, than for sure i could make you dance, while you're on some mega - little bottle [acid] [laughs] so if you take that equation into account, it works. now, you're right with what wou're saying, but i would prefer making the guy who's not aware of those frequencies dance

the fact that certain frequencies exist only in certain mental states, and ones aided by certain compounds yeah, we don'terez: but without a doubt, even with nothing in your system, you'll hear the difference between 44.1khz and 96khz, you can hear that yeah, but there are frequencies which, you're right, are not on that spectrum audience member: each person has their own ears, and dances to what they hear... definitely that's what i like about those trance nature parties, there are always those guys that are just 'gone' and they'll come back after two days, it's coolerez: or hug the speaker it's cool, i like it

shachaf: ok, let's hold off the questions, and leave some for the end, i just want you guys to see these guys live so erez, let's have a look at that project you brought erez: ok, this is the track that i mentioned earlier which was mostly constructed by weird sounds this, for example, is a bass which is essentially just duvdev's voice going into manipulator, which is the new plugin, and i'm just playing in the notes it sounds like some type of didgeridoo, but it's nothing, it's just- -auuuooeaaaaaauaaa,i'm just singing that, going through a bassline, and then into manipulator. and this is as well, it's just this crazy cat

this is duvdev as well... it sounds like i get so bored in the studio shachaf: it's a good way to kill time this is also duvdev...yeah - duvdev>manipulator audience member: the whole track is..erez: yeah, the whole track, and it's also called "manipulator" now this for example is the same thing through iwish that same lead is going through iwish now duvdev is distorted [singing the melody] that's iphone singing, by the way

we'll move forward audience member: when will manipulator be released? soon-so a couple of years?duvdev: no, no this is also...duvdev: same thing this is also a lot of plugins - i mean, it's just iwish and manipulator audience member: is that pre-slicing?erez: that's pre-slicing audience member: all of that prllllt and stuff was - erez: that's iwish duvdev: the bpm is 135? maybe 8[138]erez: the voice warping was done by manipulator -not the warping, the 'prlllt'erez: the 'prlllt' is iwish

audience member: so the whole track is just duvdev singing into the mic the whole track is...90% of the track is duvdev singing into the mic, and also, this method was really cool in my opinion, because he came into the studio with all of these hummed melodies, and he said "let's do this melody, but lets make it with massive, or something like that-" the source of that is in tracks like "heavyweight", "blue swan 5" you know, all of those bwahgogogegedadaadaa, ta da daa daa all of that is my vocals that we-

so what's cool about this is he would come into the studio with that quick idea he would actually sing it into the microphone, we would run it through the plugin, and in one second you get something that sounds good enough and different, and it's good, so we move on next, another sound, you know?audience member: and you render that instantly, you save just the resulting wave ? our project in the studio has all of the steps, because we're going to make tutorials out of it in the future, and explain how we did it and such -but you end up working with the track when it's- duvdev: what you've got here is 10 stemserez: these are stems audience member: but when you guys are working inside the project..?duvdev: 300 tracks, i have all of the steps

-just one projectduvdev: yes-and you disable unused tracks? i disable the tracks because i want to know how i did it, i don't always remember people would ask me "how did you make that sound?" are you crazy? who remembers stuff like that? so we save the process shachaf: just a minute, before we continue with questions, let's take about 15 minutes on the project just show them some..erez: i'll show off a thing or two shachaf: show off a thing or two and then we'll have 15 minutes for questions, eat their heads off audience member: i just need to hear that snare alone erez: no problemduvdev: just the snare, no problem

audience member: how many tracks are in this project? specifically this one?-doesn't sound like a lot plenty, plenty of tracks the ones that sound like the least amount of tracks are usually the most it's just, you layer them, so you'll say "look, that's 10 tracks" that's the snare audience member: you said once that you place the snare a bit ahead of the kick not in every track, usually in tracks that are at 130-128 [bpm], and that style to get more rms, you just move it back a bit audience member: oh, so it's for the rms?-of course

that whole style, where you'll hear the kick and clap - like deadmau5 and such - where the kick and clap are not ..exactly on time, it's because the rms is pushed if you have the kick and snare together, it'll click -but you raise it into a limiter... duvdev: into a limiter, that sucks, it squashes the life out of iterez: it'll get squashed so what they do is they move the snare a bit, so that they're not together, so there's no problem so that when the kick hits its peak, there doesn't need to be anything else at that moment, and then you have a few samples[distance] here and a few there to move around...duvdev: the time isn't, you know people ask what the timing needs to be, it depends on which kick and which snare -the attack part, you justduvdev: just a bit

no you just need to play around with the rhythm, move it back and forth, and listen to what sounds good and you may call it a 'shuffle rhythm', there's no such thing, it's just not in time, it's nonsense, whoever came up with that, it's nonsense audience member: at what level do you guys send psytrance tracks for mastering? low levels, don't have anything distorted[clipping]duvdev: try to have it low, let whoever's doing it do the work it's the first time we're doing that now -but who really clips...do you clip when you work? now, when we're sending these tracks for mastering for the first time in history, we're making sure that nothing is distorted, and that everything is - ideally not distorted

audience member: can we get a visual on that waveform to see what you mean - about the early snare? yeah, i could show you hereduvdev: he'll give you an example it doesn't happen in this trackduvdev: it doesn't happen specifically in this track but he'll move the snare so first i'll place the snare by the kick i'll zoom in because i'm blind, and zoom in for another week it doesn't zoom, you have to really push it see in this case, it's not spot onduvdev: here you go, they're not spot on so that's the way it isduvdev: but that's probably just that snare sample, and that's the kick, and the snare audience member: but it looks like they are on the same-erez: yeah but check out this peak here

-that peak's there and the other one's a couple of - and that's the kick's peakduvdev: exatcly, they're not together audience member: do you do that same thing with the bass? the bass and kick? no no, the bass is a different story - i'f you're talking about those 130bpm styles like deadmau5 and such- they use envelope shapers, which essentially, what those do is move the bass away from the kick we use our bass solver to cut the bass just on the kick's [fundamental] frequency which means that our kick is playing and it's got that bass frequency, we take out just that frequency out of the bass, but still leave the bass on the kick

because if you want your bass part to go 'taa, taa, taa, taa'erez: on the kick if you use an envelope shaper to move it it'll sound like "aa, aa, aa" - i don't want that i still want you to hear that impact on the kick, but that becomes a problem in high rms values, so what we do - when that 'taa' sits on the kick, we cut it's bass frequencies away on the same frequency that the kick is projecting and then, you'll still hear the impact, but it'll come back - when that kick ends - it'll come back using the 'attack' parameter we'll bring it back - that's our method - a bit weird but cool audience member: how does that not cause phase problems? it doesn't sit on the same frequency, it's still in the same place, but get this -

where the kick is playing, i'll cut that frequency out on the bass just imagine a hi-pass filter that comes in when the kick is playing erez: but as soon as that kick's bass frequencies decay completely then you bring the bassline's low end back audience member: so it's essentially an automatic hi-pass filter an automatic hi-pass filer, you can call it that you could also take a normal hi-pass filter and automate it, but that would take a lot longer it'll take longer, and we have that all set up in the plugin already audience member: so if i take the built in filter in fruity [fl studio] i can do that? yeah, you can do that, it's exactly that

-audience member: oh you guys have your own plugin that does that?both: yes we gave it away for free on our forum, you can just download it the only problem with our plugin is that you have to input a midi signal into it, because it's in reaktor which we don't like, but apare from that it's the most perciseerez: but midi is the most percise way to do it [2 simultanoeous questions from the audience] erez: it depends which plugin you load up, sometimes plugins with sharp curves can produce artifactsduvdev: what? because each time i want it a different way, you know? erez: like 'pops' or.. it depends which plugin, some of them do it smoothly, and other's just don'tduvdev: and with our plugin i just use the simple parameters to determine which frequency i want to turn down, and how quickly, and the relase time just download the plugin for reaktor, it's really simple, and nice, and i think it's cool, like you can have the midi triggering it with short 1/16 notes, and then control the length of the cut...

all sorts of stuff like that, it's nice shachaf: let's go back to the daw for a couple of minutes?erez: let'sduvdev: yeah let's hear the guitar and duvdev it goes up, and up that's the same, as well this is with the [hi-pass], just a bit of strobing what else is there... oh this is nice also another manipulator

it's got some intense options audience member: i brought a flash drive, so... this is also, those chords that we showed earlier another manipulater, this time a cleaner one, vocoder-y this is a guitar running through it this is a guitar, which you wouldn't recognize in a million years let's listen to this guitarduvdev: this is a special use of guitar audience member: was that rising tone done with iwish?erez: no, that was the manipulator oh, this is nice as well

-so it works like a vocodoer, but different...erez: a bit, different that's a good example, that one i don't even know what the source was for that - is that me? erez: no, that's...what is that...shachaf: guitar?duvdev: it's not a guitar, you know? -sounds like a guitarerez: it my be a guitarduvdev: maybe and here's that double kick and 200 crash cymbals that's what you said you do when he goes to the bathroomduvdev: the moment he left that's what i did erez: this is exactly that, duvdev syndromeanother interesting phenomena of a partnership, erez would go and make cofee, i add 50 crash cymbals and 700 buildups

it was nice until up now...and i say "erez maybe we should have some cofee" - "good idea" and he goes to make cofee, and "bshh, bshh, bshh, bshh" we would be working on some buildup for like 4 hours, i would come back to "ok, so now i've made it 4 times as long, let's fill that up with something" i say "great, another one"duvdev: that's how we work audience member: can we hear just the kick and bass for that? yes, kick bass take note of the level of 'clickyness' that kick has but once you hear it along with all the other elements, you won't hear that click

audience member: everything clicks in your tracks we like clicks, what can i say audience member: how do you get that kind of sound? most people will go to some duller sounding samples, but they don't consider that other elements will mask that kick's high end anyway when you hear the full track you didn't notice that clickyness but everything clicks in your tracks, drums, etc. duvdev: we like clickserez: we like those hits, those pronounced attacks if you take a look at the names we use for our channels; 'axe' kick, 'this' kick

erez: 'romania' kickduvdev: 'romania' kick, 'murder' kick, all sorts of horrible names all of these unpleseant names for the kicks audience member: what kind of distortion do you use? for distortions we use guitar rig mostly audience member: what are your thoughts on [xfer records'] ott? erez: it's great, kicks assduvdev: again, that's steve duda, right? again, it's not good on everything, it's agreat on some things it's based on the ableton [preset in multiband compressor] audience member: i didn't expect you guys to like it

why not? it's great, it kicks ass...we like everything that steve does yes audience member: which plugin did you use on that bassline? -no, in there erez: this? bpm? that's not mine...duvdev: i didn't do that oh, the bassline in the track?what are we talking about? there's nothing on the bassline right now no, but which vst did it come from? this was....hold on, let me think... could it be serum or monark?

it's monark...i think it's monarkduvdev: i don't think so it doesn't matter though, because you could make that sound in anything, it's just a sawtooth [wave] with a lo-pass [filter] audience member: what is it?both: sawtooth and lo-pass and the trick here is to play around with the envelope, automate it - automate the decay, the relase we play around with our basslines just like he said, automate every noteerez: automate everything, make it move around over time audience member: oh, i have an excellent question about automation - do you record it in live or draw it manually? we do a bit of both, like 50-50 - we record it horribly and then fix it manually today, we mostly draw.audience member: you draw, eh? both: yes

audience member: about the part itself - do you draw each note in on the grid? what? -because the midi is unstable righterez: the midi is unstable, ues -so you export and arrange it note for note? export it and make sure it sits, that's why we usually use short slices yes, short slices. as you know, midi isn't the most stable technology out there but that doesn't apply to vsts that problem won't occur in vsts...vsts are completely stable if you've got external gear that sends and recieves midi, it's a very big problem

not to mention cv, if you're talking about older types of gear but yeah, on vsts that doesn't exist audience member: and harmonically speaking, that's also an issue yeah, that's a problem as well, the intonation will change from octave to octave audience member: [unintelligible] yeah, it depends on the bass on trance basslines, if you're realliy looking for tips on trance basslines, what really matters is the source synth and the envelope because you need to get that short trance 'click' like

'tum tukutum, tukutum' audience member: so some people will use another layer for that yeah you can use 4 different layersshachaf: you can use 5duvdev: do whatever you want the question is what is your end result audience member: is that sound made from 2 layers? this is one layererez: this is one layer, but i can't remember if we split it into another 'click' layer doesn't sound like iterez: i don't remember audience member: so you do have a 'click' layer of course....."i saw that click!"erez: you're like "a ha!"

i told you, instead of adding things to the bass that will add that click on the 1, we take that same bass sounds, cut out those parts and exaggerate a certain midrange frequency that will be just those hits and that's why there's a track in there called "'bass click' which actually isn't a bass anymore, it's complretely cut out, apart from that mid frequency which gives that impact instead of using the spl [transient designer] and such to strengthen that 1, then you're bass suffers so that's another piece of nonsense we use.yes -nonsense?nonsense audience member: have you ever gotten stuck while working on a track you liked, and gone back to fix it later?

we usually fight that situation, if there is one, and from time to time we'll get stuck on a track, we will fight it, we also make many compromises regarding music we release, it's not like every track we release is the greatest track of all timeduvdev: we say "yeah, it's already, sounds nice" audience member: i don't know if there's enough time, but could you show us how you slice up your leads? yeah sure...do you remember the bpm for this track? you know, when recording vocals- exactly, so when you make these stacks you record 16 takes in and start picking out segments, and that's something very cool to do in cubase, so we took that same method and applied it to basslines, because why not?

you record in 6 types of basslines, and then start cutting them up and do some weird stuff with them, you know? so then you get this bassline that's not all from one sound again, we didn't go from a bass sound to a violin, drums, etc. i'm talking about 6 basslines which sit on similar range, and then from that concept of stacking vocals, from which it came from we essentially take parts, like how he just cut those up, by 1/16s or something and then switch those parts around, and cross-fade them so that the transitions are smooth audience member: but how do you choose between the parts each time? like a retard. it comes from vocals, you know, in vocals you have to do it, because

there's that one take where you went off-key, and you want to choose the one where - it comes from vocals, you know? and although the bass didn't go off-key, you can use that technique to pick and match different sounds, you know? by the way, it doesn't always come out well, but sometimes it comes out really well no, no, we have had times where we tried this, worked on it for a while - it didn't go well, boom - to the bin just delete it.don't get too caught up in it. and that's it...but- so in cubase we would take these channels [lanes], we just go eenie meenie miney moe,

just choose one of - this is the sounds that we want to hear, and then this one, then that one, and this usually happens with a larger amount of soundsduvdev: just run it by eine meenie miney moe and then you have a listen to it, and say "wait, that bit sounds cool", and "let's work on that bit now" "this needs about 200 plugins on it", "this doesn't", and "ok, move on: audience member: does that click if you don't crossfade between the different sounds? yeah, pretty much. alternatively we could just use a de-clicker after it, to solve that problem audience member: do you process each sound separately or just the finished product? today we would take just that finished leadduvdev: regarding 'disable track', someone asked earlier we do that to remember how we got that sound

or for tutorials in the future shachaf: we have 10 minutes, let's have some final questionsduvdev: all the way back there, yes audience member: i come from the field of video, and i fwanted to ask you why you guys have barely any video content out there? duvdev: ohhh, that's an excellent questionerez: because you don't make enough of it, come on now that's an excellent question, erez and i are what you call - this is the honest response you're doing to get here - lazy there was a period of time when we -audience member: i don't expect you guys to edit it no, no, there was a time when erez and i, especially erez - decided that we would specialize in video editing and we put in months into silly video editingerez: no, no, no because we enjoyed it, because it was fun, and it was done in this software

i have to mention that video editing software today are just as interesting as music editing software, and we dove in a bit too deeperez: video compilers and such and thank god, we came out of it and you will see some more video content in the future, we'll pass it on audience member: have you thought about starting a label of your own? we did start a label once, but for ourselves - to see how it works, and to understand things about it the thought is there and we get pressured to do it every year, but we don't have the time for it - with everything that we're doing - if we start a label and start signing artists here... i don't know how much time we could make for that, so that's why we're not doing it

erez: maybe in a couple of yearsduvdev: maybe when our touring route calms down a bit and that, so then maybe we could start a label, because there are many artists we like and believe we can promote, through our knowledge, and pass them on, but we simply don't have the time for that today so that's why there's no label today.erez: we try to help people we know we do what we can audience member: do you have any tracks that raise eyebrows among the audience? duvdev: a lot of times, it depends on the territory thougherez: it happens, yeah you have to understand that, as i said earlier when we discussed this - a track that will really work in one country could be a failure in another

it's not that it could be 'not as great' it could be a complete failure in that other country so if you know that ahead of time, you can ignore it, but sometimes you don't know it, and you'll play it with great confidence and - no, it just doesn't work we couldn't hear a work you were saying but i'll go with it. i heard "bvvvvvv"...yes audience member: at the mixing stage, do you use any analog [external] gear? you mean at the mixing stage?analog gear? almost never.erez: i still didn't hear the question at the mixing stage, do we use any analog summing. we pass our mixes through our ssl processors which is an external converter, like a digital mixing desk

but if you're talking about analogerez: we also listen through that, but the exports... we listen through that, but export through cubase, we used to go through the prism sound, you know, it's all about which converter you have we used to work at 96khz, and then convert it to 44.1khz but then there would be an issue regarding how you converted it to 44.1khz, just drop it it's one of the least important things in my opinionaudience member: do you work at 44.1khz today? yes. 44.1khz, 32 bit float-yeah today we work at 44.1khz it doesn't sound the best, but it's alrightaudience member: 44.1 or 48khz? 44,100

96khz sounds a lot better, no doubt, by 1000%, but once you convert it [to 44.1] your work is gone yes. whoever..you, in the back audience member: in which or your tracks do you take the most pride? -in which or your tracks do you take the most pride? which track?-track, entire project, whatever it varies every time, we usually like the new stuff more, but then we'll hear something old and remember, yeah, because you know because someone would say "you don't like your old tracks" i've been playing them live for 20 years every week...

if i have to listen to "cities of the future" one more time i'll kill somebody - but there's no choice and if you don't play "becoming insane" some one from the audience will lose it, but you know... so we play it because there's a demand for it...sometimes we change stuff up a bit we mostly get excited for the newer stuff audience member: do you prefer live shows or dj sets? what's cool about us, is that because we do both so much, because it's two different things - obviously live shows kick more ass we have much more energy on stage, so seeing infected mushroom live and seeing them perform a dj set are two different things - but - while djing, we can test out stuff we can't test out in live shows, and we can also

play music by other artists which we don't do live, so we like that too, you know? -you play other people's material?duvdev: of course, tonserez: in dj sets, yeah you know, again, you canme to see infected mushroom so you want to hear their stuff, so we can't stray too far erez: it's mostly our stuff, but we also test out new things today, we enjoy those two types of gigs. obviously the live shows kick more ass and that's the place where we feel the most comfortable on stage but we also -erez: in dj sets you could suddenly hear a 2 minute sketch for something new we're trying not something you'll hear at a concert, no way audience member: what is your opinion on your sibling's music?

amazing, really first of all, take my sister [noy] who works with jordi, who's an amazing producer, and also works with a lot of other big acts, and he's a champ my brother, ruli i-zen [israel], kyd, who had great sucess in the youth field also in music for television, he composes some big hits, not all of it is my cup of tea, musically, and not everything that we do is theirs, but in terms of production, and hits, i really like what they do, and think they're really talented we learn from each other, but try to keep the business aspect separated, is that what you asked? audience member: has it ever happened, that you came and took part in one of their projects?

in the beginning i would help with what i can, and if i was asked i would definitely give a hand but for the most part, they did it all on their own, and they also insisted to make it on their own and not because of me or something like that, and they both made it you haven't asked anything, go ahead audience member: have you ever thought about releasing some of the tracks that didn't make the cut the first time around? we get asked that alot, and there are a bunch of tracks like that, you don't even know how many there are and yeah, it's possible, it's possible we do all types of nonsense in the studio that we regret later audience member: but maybe some of those tracks would be amazing to us

yeah, probably shachaf: do you have any last tips for anyone, in terms of self-development, or developing one's self as an artist? i think if you can't release a track a week, just give up - that's my opinion you have to be efficient, you have to make a ton of music to be heard, you need- duvdev: i knew he was going to say thaterez: and he was waiting for it 'i would recommend everyone just quit today' what i mean, what i mean, is that if you don't take this thing seriously, it's not going to succeed. either you take it 100% seriously and work really hard or just let it go and do it as a hobby here and there, and nothing will happen with it

it depends what your purpose in music is, if it's just a hobby, cool, do it erez: yeah, it's great, do what you want, i also like photography if it's on a pro level, like he said, a track a week, you need to put out as many tracks as you can and don't get caught up on "oh that doesn't sound perfect"erez: it'll never be perfect it needs to be good enough, and 'next' and make sure the next one is a little better, and so on you just need to create a lot, that's very important in my opinion -duvdev?duvdev: no, he pretty much nailed it, he destroyed me shachaf: thanks alot you guys thank you for watching!subscribe to our channel for more quality content

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